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	<title>Comments on: How Much Fuel Does it Take to Make Ethanol Fuel?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/2006/01/10/how-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-make-ethanol-fuel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/2006/01/10/how-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-make-ethanol-fuel/</link>
	<description>A blog about the views and spews of editorialists, bloggers and other unsavory opinionated New Yorkers.</description>
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		<title>By: Castor Oil</title>
		<link>http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/2006/01/10/how-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-make-ethanol-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-2565</link>
		<dc:creator>Castor Oil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 May 2006 18:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/?p=398#comment-2565</guid>
		<description>As it was pointed out, there are quite a few lacunae in the Cornell University study...the basic issue appears to be that they have overestimated the energy needs at every step, which, according to the critics of the study, had resulted in a very skewed result

Be it may, I think a thorough review of the feedstock to be used for ethanol production is needed. Recent reports suggested new feedstock such as switchgrass...Is it possible that these feedstock could be be more economical, also because these are not otherwise used anywhere?

Vic, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.castoroil.in/reference/plant_oils/a_z/plant_oils_a_z.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Plant Oils A-Z&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As it was pointed out, there are quite a few lacunae in the Cornell University study&#8230;the basic issue appears to be that they have overestimated the energy needs at every step, which, according to the critics of the study, had resulted in a very skewed result</p>
<p>Be it may, I think a thorough review of the feedstock to be used for ethanol production is needed. Recent reports suggested new feedstock such as switchgrass&#8230;Is it possible that these feedstock could be be more economical, also because these are not otherwise used anywhere?</p>
<p>Vic, <a HREF="http://www.castoroil.in/reference/plant_oils/a_z/plant_oils_a_z.html" rel="nofollow">Plant Oils A-Z</a></p>
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		<title>By: milwakee's best light poker. Karl Justafsson</title>
		<link>http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/2006/01/10/how-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-make-ethanol-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-2364</link>
		<dc:creator>milwakee's best light poker. Karl Justafsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/?p=398#comment-2364</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;milwakee&#039;s best light poker...&lt;/strong&gt;

Milwakee&#039;s best light ......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>milwakee&#8217;s best light poker&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Milwakee&#8217;s best light &#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Dikkers</title>
		<link>http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/2006/01/10/how-much-fuel-does-it-take-to-make-ethanol-fuel/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Dikkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gothamgazette.com/blogs/wonkster/?p=398#comment-330</guid>
		<description>Mike,

It does take more fuel to make ethanol -- especially corn ethanol -- than the ethanol returns. (Note I said &quot;fuel&quot; and not &quot;energy.&quot;)

Fuel and energy are not the same. All fuel is energy, but not all energy is in the form of a useable fuel.

As the USDA reports says, making corn ethanol probably returns more energy than it consumes. Unfortunately, what the USDA doesn&#039;t make obvious is that the excess energy is locked in a waste product of fermentation and distillation called distiller&#039;s grains (DG). (Each pound of DG contains about 9600 Btu.)

Unfortunately, the energy in that DG is only useable on a micro level to livestock farmers in the immediate vicinity. On a macroscale of hundreds or thousands of ethanol plants across the country, the waste DG would start to pile up and ethanol plants would soon look like old coal mines surrounded by slag heaps, except the slag heaps around ethanol plants would be piles of distiller&#039;s grain that no one woudl know what to do with.

---------------------------

The critical fuel that corn-based ethanol consumes is natural gas. 

Few realize it, but growing corn is utterly dependent on nitrogen fertilizers made from natural gas.  Take away nitrogen fertilizers and corn ethanol production would soon stop.

And there is a huge problem with using those nitrogen fertilizers:  Because the demand for natural gas is rapidly outstripping domestic supplies, more and more of that fertilizer is made overseas from foreign natural gas and imported into the U.S.  I&#039;ve even seen estimates from respected agricultural economists who expect that within five years we will have to import 100% of the nitrogen fertilizer our corn farmers must depend on -- all of that fertilizer made overseas from foreign natural gas.

Do you think Governor Pataki thinks a dependence on imported nitrogen fertilizers made from foreign natural gas would be any better than our already ill-advised dependence on foreign oil?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>It does take more fuel to make ethanol &#8212; especially corn ethanol &#8212; than the ethanol returns. (Note I said &#8220;fuel&#8221; and not &#8220;energy.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Fuel and energy are not the same. All fuel is energy, but not all energy is in the form of a useable fuel.</p>
<p>As the USDA reports says, making corn ethanol probably returns more energy than it consumes. Unfortunately, what the USDA doesn&#8217;t make obvious is that the excess energy is locked in a waste product of fermentation and distillation called distiller&#8217;s grains (DG). (Each pound of DG contains about 9600 Btu.)</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the energy in that DG is only useable on a micro level to livestock farmers in the immediate vicinity. On a macroscale of hundreds or thousands of ethanol plants across the country, the waste DG would start to pile up and ethanol plants would soon look like old coal mines surrounded by slag heaps, except the slag heaps around ethanol plants would be piles of distiller&#8217;s grain that no one woudl know what to do with.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>The critical fuel that corn-based ethanol consumes is natural gas. </p>
<p>Few realize it, but growing corn is utterly dependent on nitrogen fertilizers made from natural gas.  Take away nitrogen fertilizers and corn ethanol production would soon stop.</p>
<p>And there is a huge problem with using those nitrogen fertilizers:  Because the demand for natural gas is rapidly outstripping domestic supplies, more and more of that fertilizer is made overseas from foreign natural gas and imported into the U.S.  I&#8217;ve even seen estimates from respected agricultural economists who expect that within five years we will have to import 100% of the nitrogen fertilizer our corn farmers must depend on &#8212; all of that fertilizer made overseas from foreign natural gas.</p>
<p>Do you think Governor Pataki thinks a dependence on imported nitrogen fertilizers made from foreign natural gas would be any better than our already ill-advised dependence on foreign oil?</p>
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